tv MSNBC Live MSNBC June 24, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
just saying enough to appease the lgbt community. and cindy anthony brought back to the stand today in her daughter's murder trial. we will take you there live. hi, everybody, good friday morning, i'm glad to have you with us today. i'm thomas roberts. we want to start with that ri t rivetirive riveting testimony in that casey anthony murder trial. the mother of casey anthony is on the stand again today. she's describing the pool where her daughter's defense says that she drowned. >> why would your work schedule show that you were working. >> it could have been an error if my supervise fills out my timecard. if those computer entries were made when i made them. i told you in my deposition in 2009 that i made those searches and i started looking up chlorophyll and that prompted me
to look up chloroform. >> okay, now -- >> yesterday cindy anthony offered an explosive twist in the murder trial and you hear it there, contradicting the prosecution's evidence about the web searches on chloroform. the computer searches were made when cindy anthony was at work. cindy anthony is on the stand and as much as she has spoken, there have been many halts what. cindy anthony is doing is she's talking about her granddaughter caylee and the time that she would spend in the backyard above ground swimming pool and they show these pictures with cindy and her granddaughter
climbing up the ladder and the little girl wearing her life vest and then they showed a very important photograph, and that was a photograph of 2-year-old caylee coming through the back of the house with her hand up on the sliding glass door, opening that sliding glass door on her own. exiting through there would lead her to the backyard and out to where the swimming pool is. and that's a critical moment for the jury to consider because the defense is arguing that there was no murder. as you pointed out, they're defending -- or they're suggesting to the jury that she accidentally climbed into the pool and drowned. and that is their defense. now most importantly, as she is providing this information, amid tears, her daughter casey accused of the murder is at times looking at these pictures of her daughter, crying, looking away from the monitor, and looking across the courtroom at her mother, occasionally. which is new because most of the time there's been very little
looking at her mother and very little eye contact. and what -- at the end of the day, cindy has done in two days is, in testimony for the defense has severely torpedoed what the prosecution has presented in their case of this being a premeditated and calculated murder. thomas? >> kerry sanders for us in florida. keep us posted, thanks so much. we want to bring in prosecutor wendy murphy as we have been doing all week for a look at how cindy anthony's testimony might affect the prosecution's case. we just heard from kerry, cindy anthony's testimony is contradicting two big key pieces in the prosecution's argument. one that caylee was drugged and that caylee was stuffed into casey's trunk. the stain in the back of casey's
car was present when the car was purchased in 2000. how much damage is really being done to the prosecution's side? >> it depends on how much credibility they attach to cindy anthony. she is sobbing in a way that i think is coming across as credible, if you just judge her demeanor she is credible. but on a number of issues, they are going to remember that she called 911 and said i smell a dead body in this car and within days after that she had changed her story to say, no, oops, i meant to say rotting pizza. i don't think she's necessarily going to hurt the prosecution's case because she won't necessarily be telling the truth because they know she is the mother of this woman who's on trial for her life and wouldn't a mom who cares about her own child lie a little? and they're going to believe that this woman is lying a little.
it's absurd if you ask me that she was searching for chlorophyll, oops i typed in chloroform and it was something about the dog. and the records indicate that she was at work at the time. i don't think the jury's going to buy that she was the one searching about chlorophyll and she said she never typed in the phrase how to make chloroform. so the jury is going to know that clearly came from casey anthony. >> isn't that the really pivotal point in all this, it's not that she was prompted to go on from chloroform from chlorophyll. >> how to make chloroform is a whole lot of chloroform than i typed chlorophyll and i typed in chloroform, or i typed chlorophyll and it sent me to chloroform. >> what about the significance of the pictures that have now been put into evidence of little
caylee showing that she knows how to open the door, she knows how to get back out the backdoor to get in the pool herself. what about the picture of the grandmother in the pool with the little girl and then climbing out. >> this is going to make her seem a more credible, grandmotherly, caring, considerate person. on the other hand, cindy anthony has testified in her deposition that on the day give before, on the 15th when they were in the pool, she did in fact take the ladder and put it away and seal up the pool, if you will. so how come all of a sudden when it's convenient for her daughter's defense, she says, oops, what i really meant to say was i really left the ladder out. and there's no other credible evidence that the girl died in the pool. >> and this doesn't explain why the child's body was then dumped in the woods. >> that's the absurdity of this case, if you even try to believe
the defense theory about the drowning, nothing else makes sense. the behavior in the after math, even if you think that casey was abused as a child, which is not credible. why did george behave so strangely? was he sexually abused as a child too? but jose baez doesn't have to prove that the pool theory is true, he has to let it be credible enough for the jury to say we don't really think that she drowned in the pool, but it gives us pause, reasonable doubt. >> will it will finished at the end of this week. >> if you go by what the lawyers are suggesting this case could and should be wrapped up by this week, but everything that's happening is different from what's been promised. i think we're going to hear a rebuttal case in the state,
that's going to add at least a day or two, and the defense can put up what's called ed ed a surrebuttal. >> and the jurors have been sequest sequestered, they're not even allowed to go home and see their families. the judge is very sensitive about the time they're giving to the public interest here. so i think the judge is going to push the defense in particular to speed things along especially when it's getting to a point that we're hearing evidence that doesn't matter that much. >> we're going to hear testimony from the courtroom live. >> she began to sit out? >> yes. >> that process takes place or took place with caylee sometime between the age of 1 and 2 and as she becomes even more mobile, as she approaches the age of 3. correct. >> yes.
>> it is fair to say that casey had closing items that caylee had that could last for as much as a year even if she's growing taller, correct? >> yes, ma'am. these shorts that we looked at, state's 314 in evidence, and the one displayed in the video that we saw during your direct testimony, those were shorts that were kept in your house, weren't they? >> yes, ma'am. >> when was the last time you saw them? >> sometime in 2008, towards the end of 2008.
>> is that it. >> those shorts. >> when was the last time you saw them before june 16 of 2008? >> oh, you mean -- excuse me, i'm not sure, are you talking about the pictures you just showed me? okay, i thought you were talking about the pictures we just looked at. all right. [ inaudible ] >> okay. >> were those shorts kept at your house? >> those particular shorts i hadn't recalled caylee wearing those shorts for some time. >> were those shorts kept at your house? >> you mean every day? there were several pieces of clothing throughout caylee's house that wasn't at my house every day. >> would that be because they
were packed in some sort of diaper bag or backpack? >> calls for speculation of the witness. she said she hadn't seen the shorts in over six months. so the question is asking her to speculate. >> overruled. >> can you repeat it? >> there are clothing items that you would have rocky niced that you -- and then you had seen or had knowledge of that diaper bag or backpack being placed in your daughter's car, correct? >> yes, or my car. >> or your car or your husband's car whenever you all might have taken caylee somewhere? >> that's correct.
>> you had a change of clothes with you? >> that's correct. >> so do you have any recollection as to the last time you may have seen those shorts that are in the photograph that i handed to you or that appear in the video that you indicate was taken in early to mid 2007? >> i'm sorry, can you repeat that one more time? i just want to make sure i get on the same page. >> when was the last time you saw those shorts? >> those are the shorts they dressed caylee in quite a bit. there's quite a few things that i didn't dress caylee in and that outfit was not one of my
favorite outfits. and she had more clothes hanging in her closet than she did there. so unless casey had her in them and she may have worn them after, but i didn't see her that much after 2007, i don't recall -- i do not recall seeing caylee in those shorts after 2007. >> the photograph in the video taken of her in the shorts was taken at your house, correct? >> yes, ma'am, it was. >> so you would agree that it stands to reason that at some time those shorts were kept at your house? >> yes. like i said, they were at our house, but i can't say they were there every single day, yes. >> the picture of the ladder that you testified about, how heavy is that ladder?
>> i don't know the actual weight, i can't lift it with one hand, i have to use two hands to lift it. >> you would agree that it is nothing that caylee would ever be capable of moving or manipulating on her own, correct. >> correct, she could not. >> how heavy is that sliding glass door that you showed us in the picture with caylee touching the handle? >> you have to put a pretty good force to it to open it up. >> now even though caylee was 2, almost 3 the last time you saw her, she was a very compliant child, she would follow your instruction, right? >> yes. >> if you gave her direction, she would listen to you. >> yes, ma'am.
and it was your testimony that you were very careful to give caylee instruction about going outside or putting on any sort of life vest, or climbing up the ladder of the pool? >> that's correct. >> how deep is the pool? >> i think we went through this before. it could go up to four feet, but we don't fill it naturally all the way to the top. so it's just a little bit under four feet. >> standing outside of the pool, can an adult reach in to retrieve objects in the pool if they are not at the edge? >> you have to be at the edge of the pool to reach in and get an
object. >> if an object is not at the edge, but you are, can you reach in and retrieve it, not getting wet? >> no, not unless it's within that few inches in the edge of the pool. >> when was the photograph taking with caylee at the sliding glass door? >> i can't tell you a month, but i would say it was probably the spring of 2008. >> i also imagine that you would never permit caylee to be left home alone at your house? >> absolutely not. >> one of the things that you testified on direct examination had to do with the incident that you discussed relative to the
ladder being back on the pool and the side gate being open. remember talking about that? >> yes, i remember. >> it was your testimony on a prior occasion, would you agree, that there's absolutely no way that caylee would have been able to open that gate. >> there's no way she could open the gate to the -- from the backyard to the front yard, there's no way. >> and as far as the dated of that ladder incident, you have in the past testified that it was in the week before the gas can incident, haven't you? >> yes. >> today you say that that was the night of the 16th, but do you acknowledge that you said it was the 17th or even subsequent dates during that week? >> yes. i mean when i was looking back,
early on, i was asked about it. and i knew it was either the 16th or 17th, i knew it was in those first two days. after i didn't see her anymore. >> you said that you called george when you made that discovery? >> yes, i did. >> did you call george from the house phone? >> i'm not sure if i used the house phone or my cell phone, but i did call george. >> okay. well those would have been your only two options, the house phone or the cell phone? >> correct. >> and george wasn't at the house, as a call to him would suggest. you would have only the option to use his cell phone to reach him? >> correct. >> it's not like there was a work phone where you could get him at at his security job, you had to call him on his cell phone? >> he had two phones, he had a work phone and his cell phone. and sometimes i did call him on his work phone, if he didn't pick up on his cell phone or he would call me, you know, from
either or, depending on which phone he was using. >> do you recall if you left a message for him that day or did he pick up when you called? >> i know i spoke to him and i can't remember if i spoke to him after i had left a message or not, but i know that we had communicated. >> you acknowledge as well that as it relates to dates in june of 2008, that you have already made other errors, specifically when you filled out your initial sworn statement you indicated the last time you had seen caylee was? >> just a second.
response outside the scope. >> your honor, we're talking about, he in direct examination asked questions about specific dates, i'm attempting to get the witness to acknowledge that she has made errors on dates in june of 2008 in the past. >> overruled. >> ms. anthony, you recall that your first sworn statement to law enforcement as to the date you last saw caylee had an error, correct? >> yes, ma'am, i do, i remember that. >> you had indicated that the last time you saw her was actually a week prior to father's day? >> correct. >> and it was the video of her with your dad that refreshed your recollection as to the accuracy of that date? >> that's correct. >> you said that you went to work and told some of the people at your how was about the
incident with you believing somebody was swimming in your pool? >> yes. >> you also told them about the gas can incident that was reported to the police on june 24th, correct? >> objection, outside of the scope. >> i'm not going to ask her questions about that, i'm going ask her what she reported to her co-workers since there was a question about did you tell them at work about things that happened to caylee in 2008? >> overruled. >> yes. >> are you sure you were at work on june 16 of 2008. >> yes, i know i was at work on june 16, 2008. >> your timecard reflects that you were at work on june 16th of 2008, does it not? >> i would imagine it would, but i haven't reviewed that timecard in three years.
>> may i approach the witness with 318 in evidence? >> you may. >> have you located the industry for the week ending -- let me think. the 20th? >> yes. >> it shows you were at work on june 16 of 2008? >> yes, ma'am. >> and that's accurate? >> yes. >> are you sure you were at work on june 17th of 2008? >> yes. without looking at this, i'm sure i worked june 17. >> every day that week?
was on the videos that were done at the jail? >> outside scope, your honor. >> sustained. >> you showed us photographs of caylee getting in and out of the pool. did your daughter tell you that there was an accident involving the pool? >> objection, judge, outside the scope. >> overruled. >> no, ma'am. >> in fact, she continued to assert to you after july 15th of 2008 that the child was kidnapped by a babysitter, correct? >> that's correct. >> those are all the questions i have on the issues, your honor. >> redirect? >> we have been listening in to the casey anthony trial taking case in orlando there, the
prosecution is taking on cindy anthony who is casey's mother who is back on the stand. i want to check in with kerry sanders real quickly here, kerry this is a defense witness situation, the mom taking the stand for the defense. what type of fine line is the prosecution walking with their questions. >> they're trying to hammer away with what the defense -- >> i'm showing you -- >> kerry, are you back? >> at the very beginning. >> kerry, i apologize, we had an issue with your shot. can you pick up from the top? >> reporter: okay, i think what's interesting here is that cindy, who has been on the stand several times throughout this trial began as a prosecution witness. >> uh-huh. >> very credible and extremely emotional. now she's called as a defense witness, again, seemingly very strong at times, incredibly
emotion emotional, and what she is suggesting to the jury supports the defense's claim that caylee did not get murdered by her mother, but rather drowned in the backyard swimming pool. so the prosecution comes back with very direct questions, in fact the last question was probably the best one, asking about did your daughter tell you that there was an accident in the backyard swimming pool and cindy said no, and then the follow-up question, did she continue to assert that her child had been taken by the nanny, by the babysitter. and she said yes, and that's important because it's re-enforcing to the jury that there are these two paralegl stories, so does the jury believe what cindy is now saying or what the defense is trying to suggest that there was this accidental drowning.
>> do you find her to be a stilted witness by the prosecution's cross than she was by her prosecution witness. >> i have do say she really caught the prosecution off guard when she called into question this idea of the drowning, because the jury heard her say when linda drane-burdick -- i have told you this before. that resonates the way she said it because the prosecution is suggesting to the jury that this is all something brand-new to them and she sort of undercut that and now she's on the stand and there was a very important picture displayed to the jury today, it was not of the swimming pool, it was tonight ladder leading to the above
ground swimming pool. perhaps the most important picture was a photograph of caylee at the sliding glass door at the back of the house, opening that door herself, showing and demonstrating that she should exit and leave on her own. >> and secindy is testifying th that door would need pretty good force to open it. >> kept throughout the house? >> correct. >> and the jeans, the shorts that caylee was found in, you testified with ms. drane-bur dirks dick hadn't been seen for several months. >> and the only time you would see them is if you had to wash them, is that correct? objection. >> sustained. >> where in early 2008 was it a
frequent custom of yours to just go looking for clothing that didn't fit caylee anymore? >> there were specific times that i would go through caylee's drawers like christmas time, if she received a lot of gifts, you would tend to take out the ones that were smaller and then put the larger size in. birthdays, the same way, any holidays. >> and would you do these -- would you best characterize that as spring cleaning type deal? >> or if i was putting something on her and noticed it was too tight, i would note that sometimes i would set it on her dresser, or maybe even leave it in the drawer with the intention to go back and go through all the clothes and kind of see if i had time to go through and see what fit and what didn't fit. >> and unless you were watching this clothing, you wouldn't see them on a regular basis. >> that's correct. >> and that's consistent with
what you just testified to that you hadn't even those shorts in a long time. >> i would say so. >> i know this is going to sound odd, but caylee was a child, almost 3 years old? >> you mean instead of being a baby? >> yes. >> she wasn't a -- she was a regular toddler? >> yes. >> and as to her being own bee beet yend or not, did you discipline her or treat her like she was in the military or anything like that? >> dmo. no. >> were you overly strict with her? >> no. >> so she ran and played like any other toddler? >> depend peent upon her
surroundings. >> and was she an average or above average toddler? >> i thought she was above average. >> no further questions. >> may the witness be excused? >> and you see in the photograph, 314, you can correct me if i'm wrong, but the one we saw that you said was taken in 2007. >> yes, it's similar. the sturdy cotton that has less give than a knit fabric? >> yes. >> that's all i wanted to clarify, your honor.
>> okay, may mrs. anthony stand down? >> yes. >> thank you, ma'am, you may stand down. >> thank you. >> cindy anthony has now been excused from the stand, cindy being the mother of casey anthony. we listened to some very interesting testimony there, we're going to go back do kerry sanders. kerry, i'll start with you, interesting there that jose baez same back to redistrict and ask questions concerning whether or not cindy recognized that caylee was over the age of being a baby, she was recognized as being a toddler, and interesting how he pointed out, were you overly strict with her, treating her as if you were in the military, and she responded with no. what was he trying to s ing tii there? >> i'm not sure other than trying to tell the jurors that she was a toddler and not a
baby, and she had like all little toddlers that she had a mind of her own that's guided by adults. as i'm watching this unfold over the last 48 hours in this courtroom is if the prosecution right now is revisiting in their minds their willingness to allow cindy anthony to sit in the courtroom during the entire trial, she has had the opportunity to take in everything and only on a few days has left the courtroom. and so she is now fully aware of every piece of evidence that's been presented and clearly the evidence that she is testifying to is in full support of this -- the defense's claim that 2-year-old caylee drowned in the backyard swimming pool and i'm wondering just a little bit if the prosecution might have rethought, now that they see the way this has played out, whether they are wondering if they rethought this decision to allow
her to be in the courtroom. >> as a former prosecutor, do you agree with what kerry is saying? >> you always want to be careful not to let witnesses listen in to other testimonies, so they can't change their testimony. florida is like most states, they take depositions in advance of trial so everything that cindy anthony has said about everything is already under oath in these written transcripts, so really it's not making much a difference. she's been well prepared, i'm sure with the support of jose baez to produce testimony to match up with the defense testimony as best she can, because she's trying to help her daughter but it's not particularly credible. in answer to where were they going with this stuff was caylee obedient or not. they're trying to make the point
that sencindy was incredibly stg about don't go near the pool unless someone is with you. and cindy's theory about the drowning is nonsense because caylee could not have lifted the ladder or moved the door or caused her own accidental drowning. also critical is the testimony about the clothing. cindy anthony couldn't -- she tried so hard not to answer the prosecution's questions about those shorts. and that's because we know that the clothing points to casey's guilt. >> wendy, kerry, i'm going to ask you to stand by, i'm going to go back into the courtroom, casey's brother lee has taken the stand. >> circle on the screen where these stains were. >> okay. >> i specifically remember there being three, they were all outside of the -- >> go ahead and mark on the -- >> they're all outside of the tire cover.
there was one there, approximately, there was one higher up, below the amplifier and then there was a smaller one just kind of on the side over here. >> and were they there when you purchased the car? >> from everything i know, yes. i remember seeing them several times throughout the time that i owned it. >> did you have an opportunity to -- how long did you own the car? >> almost five full years. >> so in those five years did you ever create any stains in t the trunk. >> i'm sure i have. i don't recall making any of those three, but i do remember seeing them. it was just nompl toll see those. >> handing you another photograph. is this a little better view of
the trunk? >> yes. >> that's state's what? >> state's 8. can you show us where on this photograph where the stains were? >> here and then the other one is off the picture. >> off the picture, okay. how long would you say those stains were there? >> if not -- i don't know for sure. more often than not, longer than, for the majority part of the time i owned them if not the entire time i owned them. >> they don't come up too well on these photographs, do they? >> no, they don't. but they were there when you would be able to see it, is that
listening to what's going on inside the casey anthony courtroom. a sidebar taking place right now based on the question present by jose baez to lee anthony about when do you remember noticing your sister was pregnant. >> i don't know. it could be going into her sexual activity which the court has ruled prior to trial cannot be admitted. there's a lot of stuff, if you read the witness statements, casey had an awful lot of sex with an awful lot of guys and that testimony has been stricken by the court as too prejudiciap. so i think the fear is that we're going to get into that, since her sexual activity is going to involve pregnant. [ boy ] new chips ahoy! chewy gooeys
welcome back, everybody, we're going to take you inside the casey anthony trial, that's taking place in orlando, her brother lee is on the stand, jose baez asked when did you notice your sister was showing. he said he shared a bahathroom with her and he saw her midsection showing. >> overruled as to the hearsay answer. >> we're not offering this for the truth of the matter, your honor. >> i don't know what's coming up, so approach the sidebar. >> yes, sir. >> so another sidebar here, a second one in as many minutes, we have nbc's kerry sanders outside the orlando courtroom, also prosecutor wendy murphy who's joining us this morning. wendy, i want to ask you real quickly, the line of questioning that's going on here, you said
casey's extracurricular social life is not supposed to be part of trial. so where do you think this line of questioning is actually going, especially if the judge admitted it just a moment ago. >> it's hard to tell, i mean obviously, the prosecution has a perspective on her pregnancy that matters to them and their theory of the case is that this was an unwanted pregnancy, this was an unwanted child, it was a secret, it was shameful, the family didn't like that she was having this baby. how that connects up to who killed this poor child, i'm not sure, maybe kerry has an idea about that. but an awful lot of testimony has come out about how strange it was that she was so obviously pregnant, you know, photographs of casey at a wedding, a family wedding for example and people saying, oh, my god, she's about to give birth and cindy saying, no, she isn't. which is really strange because she was quite pregnant and the family at that time was saying, huh-uh, she was just chubby. it's kind of a crazy piece of
the story, i think, i'm not sure what to make of it. >> in your estimation where does the denial of the family of case's pregnancy. >> i think it's just the dysfunction in the family of not wanting to see things tharp that are quite obvious, and right in front of they faces. it's a picture of they lived in this beautifully man curicurede street in orlando and it may not be that it is the most critical piece of evidence, but each time they can drop something, a juror, maybe multiple jurors are picking up on that and that these jurors when they eventually get back and go into the room, they'll be able to discuss it. i believe they're now returning in a moment here to the
continuation of some of the questioning. >> i was going to say, what type of questions or witness has lee been so far, kerry, just real quickly? >> i can't say that he's been particularly helpful to the prosecution or the defense. he's just been somebody who has spoken matter-of-factly about some of the facts around the case. it's really not until today that he's talked about that stain in the trunk and supporting what his mother said about the stain in the trunk being there when he got the car. he's really maybe drawing ranks with the family. >> she came and picked me up at the airport. >> caylee was born in 2006, right? >> i'm sorry, yeah, i'm sorry, i had the years wrong. no, she was born in 2005. >> oh, excuse me. >> so you're referring to 2005? >> yes. i apologize. >> did there come an occasion where you saw -- or you noticed
this again to any greater -- did you see her showing more? >> absolutely. it was brutally honest at that point that she was pregnant. >> and was it known in your family or was it discussed in your family at all that she was pregnant? >> objection, hearsay. inspecific about what was being toughed in her family. hearsay. >> sustained. >> was it discussed with your mother that at this point that casey was pregnant? >> myself and my mother? >> yes. >> prior to asking her a few months before, no. >> and then after you talked to your mother about it and you confronted her, was there about a month later that you saw casey again, did she pick you up at the airport?
>> objection. >> you need to rephrase your question. >> was there an occasion where your sister picked you up at the airport? >> yes, sir, there was. >> okay, and how was she showing when she picked you up at the airport? >> far enough out to where i know she just wasn't putting on weight. >> what? >> far enough out to where i know she wasn't just putting on weight. >> so are you saying she obviously looked more pregnant? >> yes. >> and was this how long after you had already confronted your mother? >> objection, facts not in evidence. >> sustained. >> let's continue, next question. >> yes, sir. >> can you give us time frame from when she picked you up at the airport, to when you were -- you had con fronted your mother about casey's pregnant.
>> same fact not in evidence. i have objected twice. >> sustained. >> did you have any discussions with your mother or your father about casey's pregnancy when she punishinged you up at the airport? >> no, i do not. >> during the time period between the time you con fronted your mother and time you had picked her up at the airport -- >> let him finish asking the question, sit down. mr. anthony, do not answer the question until i tell you you can answer the question. ask your question, mr. baez. >> yes, sir. were there any discussions between the time that you confronted your mother and the time that you -- that casey picked you up at the airport that had anything to do with casey being pregnant? >> any objections to that
question? >> as rephrased, no, sir. >> you may answer. >> from the time i con fronted her with that until that time, we never spoke we never spoke about it again, no. >> when you say again, what does that mean? >> until just a few days before caylee was born. >> okay. >> and are you saying that the very first time there was any discussion about casey's pregnancy oesh the time you confronted your mother was just a few days before caylee was born? >> that was the only time it was acknowledged to me that that was indeed the situation, yes. >> and when caylee was born, did you go to the hospital to see your sister? >> regrettably, no i did not. >> why didn't you go?
>> i was a little hurt. just didn't want to be there. >> why? who were you angry with? >> objection. relevance. >> sustained. >> why were you hurt? >> objection. relevance. >> sustained. >> can you explain to us the reasoning behind why your actions? >> objection, relevance. >> sustained. >> your honor, may i approach so you can explain? >> yes, you may. >> we are listening to the testimony of lee anthony. lee is casey's brother. jose baez is talking to lee asking questions concerning the pregnancy of casey anthony and talking to him how did he know, when did he know that his sister was pregnant. he said that they shared a bathroom and that he realized that after seeing her midsection
one time however it wasn't pully discussed, at one point after being picked up at the airport she was visibly pregnant and there wasn't any hiding it anymore. wendy, when we talk about this, i'm speaking with wendy murphy ark former prosecutor. wendy, it's good to have you with us. why are they trying to put together this time line of no i didn't go see her in the hospital because i was hurt. and now the prosecution doesn't want to find out what was hurting him? >> reporter: it's an interesting question. i'm not sure i know the answer, i will say this, it's not entirely clear this is relevant. i think that's what they're discussing at side bar. the judge is saying who cares how lee felt about caylee's baby. george's testimony about the birth of caylee it was like christmas time. we were so happy. it was delightful, we were thrilled. wow, the family was so happy. now it's a small family, four people and now you've got this one member of the family saying you know, it really wasn't such
a happy time. i didn't even go to the hospital because i was very distraught. what's going on in this family that george was saying the birth was delightful and lee was saying i was to upset i didn't go to the hospital. there could be more to the story. i just don't know how it's relevant to how this child died. >> watching the dynamics of these shots of casey and lee, both have teared up as we wait for the side bar and the questioning to resume. it does set the dynamic for trying to figure out what was going on with this family during that time. casey is visibly upset right now. and i believe the side bar is over. let's go back. >> as to why you didn't go see caylee and casey at the hospital. >> i was very angry at my mom
and i was also angry at my sister. i was angry at eeryone in general that they didn't -- that they didn't want to include me. and didn't find it important enough to tell me especially after i had already asked. so i was very hurt. and i didn't want to -- i think i wanted to believe it, you know. >> i'm sorry, they didn't want to include you? >> objection. >> sustained. >> were you angry because they hid the pregnancy from you? >> objection.
asked and answered and leading. >> sustained as to leading. >> do you need a moment shlg sir? >> i'm okay. >> why were you angry? >> objection, asked and answered. >> sustained. >> are there other reasons while you were angry? >> objection. asked and answered. >> overruled a as to that question. >> were there other reasons while you were angry? >> no answer, sir. other than asked and you've already given of the reasons. yes and no. >> no. >> can i approach the bench?
>> you may. 1234. >> we're going to recess for lunch. i'm going to ask that you not discuss this case among yourselves, nor with anyone else in the additional instructions on behalf of the state. >> no, sir. >> or the defense. we'll be in recess until 1:30. >> the case now in recess for their afternoon lunch break listening to very emotional testimony from cindy anthony as well as casey's brother, lee. we'll continue to pick up our coverage here after their recess. also the next hour of msnbc will